their historical value. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. CARBINE / CAL. Lighter colored wood such as birch was often stained darker before being finished. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? You certain the receiver is S'G'? Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. Serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the receiver. They didn't come any other way--period. Underwood supplied barrels for Saginaw SG (page 50). That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory. It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. during the time the carbines were manufactured. American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Need Help Identifying Marks and value on My New SG M1. The hammer is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 89). the store. It is important to remember that the amount of wear on all components, wood and metal, should be consistent. A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition. Simi Valley, CA 93065. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. Caliber: .30 Carbine. It's the first I've seen. There is no bayonet lug. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 9 43 and P. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. Here is my $50 Saginaw S'G' - IP Carbine. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in the past before my family member acquiredit. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. Saginaw SG took over the Irwin-Pedersen facility in April of 1943 and produced M1 Carbines using Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG parts. Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. The stocks were also stamped with code markings which are normally found inside of the sling recess on the left side. Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. To separate the production of each plant the prime symbol () was marked after the SG on the receivers of the Grand Rapids carbines. Until then it remains an unknown. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. to manufacture barrels. Stocks made of Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. Barrel Date: September, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The stock shows several scrapes, scratches, and compression marks. / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. When CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it is a Saginaw. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. It also has a S'G' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate. Marked INLAND MFG. They were located in different cities. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. The hammer is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 89). Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. After WWII many stocks & handguards did not have a manufacturers mark. We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. Sent the OP some pictures of an all S'G' I had listed here last year, didn't get a single request for pictures from members, and asked two questions but had no reply. The bore shows an M.E. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Glad to hear it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free! designated it as a replacement. There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide Ordnance depots outside the continental U.S. and foreign facilities contracted by U.S. The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. Mechanics:The action functions correctly. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. Got 1 ! The Carbine Collectors Club. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. There are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) has a tooling hole at the rear. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. If a receiver has its original barrel and the The sling well is marked RSG which was used bySaginaw SG, Irwin-Pedersen, and Saginaw Gear(page 108 109). How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. No specific manufacture dates are listed due to a number of reasons explained on pages 24 to 26 of Scott Duffs book, The M1 Carbine Owners Guide. We did not fire this rifle. IP used some Rockola wood at their start up. The sling is marked with a blurred stamping between the buckle & strap. The rifling is sharp. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) We did not fire this rifle. Excellent overall condition. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. To get better and faster responses and opinions. It is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. It is in great shape. They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. I have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. rebuilt from spare parts. Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. All Rights Reserved. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. A circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle stamped in the bottom of the handgrip (above left) was sometimes used as a proof mark at several prime contractor facilities to indicate a completed carbine -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. CARBINE / CAL. What caught my eyes right at the start when I purchased the little rifle was the unusual rear sight. G.S. The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. The bottom of the grip is marked with a circled P proof. Doing so may alter Thank you. Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! The band will have 3 spot welds. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. Rather than assume the documents were followed to the letter, the serial numbers in tables C-F are presented with the lowest and highest reported to date. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. The only firms that made their own barrels were Inland, Winchester, Underwood, Rock Ola and IBM. of 0.5. A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees, This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. Saginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be