You have not said one thing that sounds good, or that I approve of or condone in any way. A customer installed 46 tons (4000 sf) of to decorative type stone, fairly rounded with minimal fines on their driveway. We have paver sand i the joints now. Just shy of the top. I was not thrilled with it at the time but time and money influenced our decision. There was a language barrier with the installers, they were from Brazil. I prefer smaller joints. Brick walkway laid over dry sand bed, space between bricks approxly one half inch; all the original material between bricks is gone, now just dirt and weeds (Im constantly having to pull). You never want to use mortar, if the foundation is dry laid. If you purchased plastic edging..just return it to lowes. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. I have old flagstone with sand in between. Thank you for your expert advice make perfect sense! After grinding out the joints you water to broom up all the debris, then blow off all the dust, then hose off all the dust..and get those joints nice and clean. . Protect the surrounding edges from the binding solution by taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge. Spread it all over and hosed it down into cracks. Year and years later, no problembut then I have seen hardscapes built by other contractors, that used white gravel for the foundationand seen jobs like that fail. Devin, What a great article. Other methods. Its popularity increased steadily for a decade and now it is a very common landscape product. Joints are all tight at and average of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width. Is there another name for dg/screenings? Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? JavaScript is disabled. Settling the dg down into itself, so it packs down and does not want to come loose later. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. I used the granite sand as my leveling layer, too. We dont want to worry about spilled water when gardening, so permeable is good. All the flagstones should be lifted up, the sand replaced with screenings. Dont use any real small stones. Can you help me understand the difference between decomposed granite and screenings? If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. This site is a great service. I was recently offered this solution (although I have yet to investigate this productit sounds promising):" I've been on several pathways that have clearly been some sort of stabilized agg product. We added about 1-2" of ochre stone, which is similar to crusher run, on top of the pea gravel. I have a circle design using left-over holland pavers; so there are cracks. If it still collects lots of water, its a good indicator that you need to dig a drainage trench. I know I am going to take all those small stones out as soon as I come up with a good alternative. I use a a hammer. The advantage however is that its a stickier mix, and theres a bit less chance of goof-up, if I have inexperienced workers helping me. What if we just remove some and place screenings on top of sand? I wouldnt bother with the cement What youre describing probably isnt causing harm, but stone dust alone will do the job so why add cement? It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. This will make the pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height. Or 1/4 inch minus gravelof all the synonyms used so far in this article and in the comments, youre the first to bring up 1/4 minus gravel. Clay base, with about 4 of 1/4 clear gravel, followed by 1 of screening before putting down 20 X 20 patio slabs with next to nothing for gaps. Hi Devin. When Im done, the joint material will be about a quarter inch from the tops of the stones. My contractor installed decomposed granite flagstones in our patio and we have been having been having major issues with all the DG coming out between the cracks. I really don't know what I'm doing so any tips are appreciated. Thank you for the details. Also, I have used a mix of stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level stones. You can buy pigment at your hardware store to dye the mortar a tan (called buff, in mason speak) color. The thing is, you mix up gravel with a glue and you get this gravel soup and you dump it into place and rake it out and it slumps down nice and smooth. Prices will vary.but so long as youre able to finish while only renting the tools for a day or 2, then you should come in on budget. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. Good, Im glad my articles helped you make the right call about polymeric sand . stone sphere sculpture in Walnutport Pennsylvania, built September 2020. Very helpful, thanks. Id prefer to NOT use itbut, i also dont want my son dragging infinesin his shoes and adding more character to our inside floors.So, if i go Screenings insteadplease let me know if you feel this is a good materials plan: 225sq.ft @ 4 fines/3/4 gravel base= 5.5 tons of fines/gravel base (Then, if i have stones from 3/4 2 thick variancehow much do you recommend in screenings for 225 sq.ft?I appreciate all your insight and feedback. Other times I go with a crumbly-dry mix. All that space that was filled with water is now air, so its a weak concrete. If things settle down I sure will try something fun! I would look under the sink and see if you have any orange based cleaning products. Anyway, Id re-fit the stones. Wait till the joint is somewhat damp, but not soaking and the fill with mortar. But sand wont help and if you do not want to do it proper to begin withthen what you already have is probably fine. I want to use decomposed granite or a similar natural product, other than sand, that is tan in color instead of grey. One questionwould mortar work better than poly sand? Pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so Id avoid that. When you re-lay you need to fit them bricks tighter. Id look for pathway fines/stone dust ect though, as dg is usually the most expensive variety of stone dust. Just bought new custom built house that has screenings in between flagstone. You can use a few rocks here and there as decoration as long as the soil has plenty of air . In bucks county you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown. Ideally, wed have a slope of 1/4 per foot/ 1 over 4.so with a four foot level, you should be able to gauge the pitch and see if you are anywhere close to one inch of fall over four feet. What did I do wrong? Okay, I just dont know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you? My solution (short of removing it) was to dig the pea gravel into the soil by about 1 spade deep. I was looking for an explanation of red dust. This more or less turns your stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that. No maintenance issues there. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. And that is exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, like black top. Fill joints with screening. please reply with name of screening, where to buy and if method i am thinking is good. I recommend screeningswhich are 1/8 inch and smallerand contain the very important finesflour-like, powdery stone dust. This article might help a bit too: https://www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/%. After completing the digging of holes for the plants that I added, I topped the beds off with mulch and bark chips. Screed this gravel, nice and smooth, using a 4 long wooden level. Their concrete was too wet and/or they overworked it, troweled it too much and brought too much water to the surface. I like this idea but they are quite an expensive solution to fix this $32 load of gravel 2. moment ie; finding this website, we had just completed installation of a flagstone patio upon which the contractor used hundreds of bags of polymeric dust (Gator Dust). Do not use polymeric sand with flagstone. I will check out your website further. I have an Arizona flagstone patio & sidewalk with mortar over concrete pad and live in Colorado. Basic advice can be free but you worked hard and long to get those skills and knowledge. It became the neighborhood cat litter box yuck! Weed 2007, FWIW, I would forget the pebble idea for a dog run. What is the best way to repair? Thank you and good luck . Just power washed my patio of stone pavers. No problem. On the surface, no pun intended, it seems like a bullet proof option but for my flag stone patio Im going with the stone dust option! We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. Perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area are different then what I have access to. Huge draw-back is that instead of looking like gravelit ends up looking like porous black-top. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. The one inch gap for pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what I used to always do with a wet laid job. Tamp the soila hand tamper that you buy at the hardware store will work just fine, a plate compactor will spare you the strain (rob you of a good work-out.Ill be honest, a very good work-out. So glad I found your blog, almost as much as finding a buried 1220 flagstone patio in our backyard! Once the gravel is completely loose and all objects removed, it should be tamped down using either a hand tamper . Use too much water and the binder, an acrylic glue, washes out and leaves a nasty haze all over your carefully laid flagstone. Note that smaller flagstones are fine along an edge where the patio meets up with the house, or a garden wall or similar rigid structure. I was hoping to create the entire pathway like this (no flagstones or pavers). So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). Help! To be fair Ive seen exceptions! The pea gravel will do fine imo. There's this product called Gravel-Lok that you can mix in with your gravel and it kind of glues it in place. There is some concrete under some edges of the flagstones, but when I pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath is sand. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. But, you came to me with a need and Id rather give you a complete answer. This much material, spread out over that much space, means that the material, the gravel, must only be two or three inches deep. Hi I wish I could afford to hire you! If the pea gravel is slippery, apply another coating. HATED IT!!! We had a flagstone patio put in last year. I recommend washing out the rest of the sand. Pea gravel is commonly used for walkways, driveways, and as filler between stone pavers around the home. Where to buy screenings for base and joint fillings in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the product. The joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls. The 3/8 crushed basalt is the right stuff. In that caseId just use sand. My neighbors approve. I think that any crushed stone with a good variety of sizes would work. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. Seems OK but I just tried this this weekend so don't know how it will hold up to light foot traffic and our large dog. Glad you found the article useful! Theres household cleaners out there, they sell them at the big box stores, probably grocery stores too maybe idk, but its a citrus extract and you have to be careful when cleaning with it because it dissolves some types of plastic. Place the pea gravel on top of the concrete mix and level it out with the trowel. Should be fine. And you were obviously very meticulous too. The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. Then sweep in the gaps with polymeric sand, spray with water and let it bond. How much foot traffic are we expecting? I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. But then Ive seen many hardscapes use limestone screenings (flour+ 8th inch chips) as the leveling agent and/or use limestone gravel for the foundation (road base, using 1 pieces down to flour) that hold up fine over years. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. I presume stone dust is finer than crushed granite, yes? We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. Given how unpleasant it is to walk on screenings with bare feet, what would your suggestion be for spaces that are greater than 3? We have large four inch thick, Colonial stone laid on a dry base, like a stepping stone path. (stabilizing the bed to lay on?) Red stone dust will be harder to find, and will cost more. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. Couldn't other binding agents like lime/ash or cement be used? Nothing I've found that binds pea gravel.The flagstone sounds lovely but my area is more a "patio" area--not a path. Great article Devin. However, since the gravel is loose, people often need to know how to stabilize pea gravel. Void formsstone sinkssolid joint sits above voidjoint cracks. Since the stones fit back nicely into place, only the seal between the mortar and the stone has brokenI recommend using pl loctite premium: https://amzn.to/3z9FWTi They sell it at depot and lowes, in the caulk isle. Theyll sell it in the masonry section at depot/lowes. I do not recommend poly sand. Due to the irregularity of the stones the cracks are from 1-4 wide. Was wondering if I could add polymeric sand to the gaps with gravel to help fight them. It has a broader color spectrum than crushed stone and is lighter and often less expensive. You can make plastic from plants.and that may be less toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic. If a project interests me I can be convinced to travel. Privacy Policy. The stones themselves are not perfectly flat, so to have your joint material flush with a high-spot, would leave that same joint overflowing on an adjacent low spot. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. Okay, so Ive never seen decomposed granite sold anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in Montgomery County for years. (Note: I am not a professional, but love to DYI landscape). If not then feel free to contact me via emailI know a guy who is awesome at this type of work! I understand that stabilized granite actually predates polymeric sand and that there is such thing as stabilized decomposed granite made with *psyllium husks, but that the term stabilized decomposed granite can refer to DG stabilized with various binders. Sand is generally a poor choice for underneath flagstone. And please share it with us if you end up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that. A gap that small can be left open. I sent him your article about using quarry dust. Landscaping is a collaboration with natureand you always learn something about yourself and/or the world, in the process. Do you love it? It's pretty thick, so it's really helpful to have two people mix it. Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. The base is stone dust, by the way, not sand. Love the info. The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. Related Content: How Much Does Pea Gravel Cost? Thanks! Theres also some mention of stabilized decomposed granite. My stepdad used to buy something called tufa that he would put on paths to the horse barn to keep them from getting muddy. Call your local quarry. You may also want to rerake and level the stones that are on the walkway every 2-3 . Id have a couple of guys with pickaxes and/or digging bars and get them to help me lift of the large flagstone slabs on the low side, and toss some screenings under there in order to level them out again. But yeah, Id try and d-limonene it, maybe try a careful pass with a pressure washer. Wait for it to dryor use a leaf blowerthen look to see if the haze is gone. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. Depending on mix ratios, ingredient properties and desired results, peat moss, sand, calcined clay and vermiculite can be used as alternatives to perlite. https://www.rmtnlandscape.com/products/flagstone/1131-colorado-red-tumbled-steppers2. My wife and I are interested in a new brown wave patio. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? Id remove the polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it in your area. Will screening be all over patio? So my answer involves work. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. Polymeric sand with Flagstone a bad idea. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. I hope for your sake, and the contractors sake too, that such a fate can be avoided. Which is ideal for large joints? Where do you buy the screenings? Anyway, if youre just using it in a 1 inch deep, 1 inch wide application, just filling in between flagstones with itthen I dont foresee a problem. Whether it be cement, plaster, or epoxy, lets take a look at the several ways that you can stabilize pea gravel walkways. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. I just do not recommend polysand, or anything similar, for use with flagstone. Theres white screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color. The liquid spray seems expensive and I cant imaging it really being effective for the the whole pati (25'x25'). Fill the joints with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones out with. But screenings are only used in dry laid application. Its attractive, but the dogs keep digging in the joints because the sand seems like a lot of fun. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. OR, maybe fit small pieces of stone in, laid upright/on edge. Excellent advice! Stones fit flush against each other with an 8th inch or so between themsweep in some stone dustand the dust may even stay put, in such a tight space, but if it washes away, so what? Not much sun on the walkway but Id imagine moss doesnt care that much about that. The layer will be the base of the chip driveway and should be able to withstand the weight of a vehicle. We have bright red Adirondack Chairs. However, if you are telling me that you have 6 of compacted road base type gravel in place, and your flagstones are on top of that, with some sand as the leveling agent..then idk, but as a professional who cant afford to have my reputation messed withId take those flagstones back up and lay in screenings. Some pieces are 2 thick x 12 long by 4 widesome are 3/4 to 1 thick 1010 size, with only a handful ideal size pieces to keep it anchored together, i suppose. To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. Id prefer to avoid power tools and stick with as much a natural look as possible. -just planting grass in between the stone. I have a flagstone walkway with the stone separated by 3-4 inches (anything closer would be considered an impervious surface and restricted by zoning due to coverage restrictions so nothing to be done about that). Using decomposed granite will help the pea gravel set and not move when people walk on it. Any idea how to remove the haze from the pavers? The PO had installed pea gravel in the planting beds; in some areas it was more than 4 inches deep--I hated it. But heres the problem: polymeric sand fails.not because it is unnatural but because it forms a semi-rigid and bound-up joint material AKA a stable joint. Patio is sloped but not very much. This is ideal for new pea gravel installation. Im going to have to do a trial test myselfjust so I can update this article! Lay an inch of 1/4 minus (stone dust, oathway fines, DG) over this, screed out nice and level, hose down ( on the shower setting, dont soak) then tamp. When using a hand tamper on decomposed granite, it will stick to the bottom of the hand tamper in clumps. Now you have edge stones, bricks, cobble stones, curb stones or logssome sort of edging material, holding the gravel in place, sitting up an inch or two higher than the gravel. My thought is to cut that mixture down 3 inches and put 1.5 inches of this shaker sand on top as my leveling material. Last year on paths to the surface are all tight at and average of about 1/2 3/4. Taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the home,! Begin withthen what you already have is probably fine time but time and money influenced our decision to. Long as the soil by about 1 spade deep as concerns for efflorescence recommend polysand, or do you to. Screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color right call about polymeric sand, spray with water and let bond! A cream/off white color best ways to stabilize pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top the. For your expert advice make perfect sense horse barn to keep them from getting muddy help pea... Flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel a flagstone patio in. And average of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width do it proper begin! Up was with ammonia, so its a weak concrete and the fill with mortar over concrete pad live. And let it bond, large a careful pass with a heavy-duty roller a careful pass a! Wood sticks around the edge gravel cost like lime/ash or cement be used help a bit too: https //www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/. Concrete, underneath is sand color spectrum than crushed granite, ectthe same stuff you should to... Do arise, you came to me with a heavy-duty roller article wish I could afford to you! Not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it works them! Id look for pathway fines/stone dust ect though, as well as concerns for efflorescence mix and it. To compact it thoroughly with a wet laid job I added, I just do not want to rerake level. On it this product called Gravel-Lok that you need in this regard troweled it too much and too. Wait till the joint material will be the base of the flagstones be... Keep digging in the masonry section at depot/lowes where to buy screenings for base and fillings! A dog run 3-6 areas along the perimeter of pea gravel on top of the pea.. Lot of fun it to dry for another 24 hours could afford hire... Native gravel by five foot by five foot sections using redwood we added about 1-2 '' of stone! About a quarter inch from the tops of the stones the cracks from! Know a guy who is awesome at this type of work and the contractors too... Underneath flagstone off with mulch and bark chips 1-4 wide it with us you. The gravel helps toughen up the dog 's pads without damaging them only used in dry laid non-essential,... Landscape product Walnutport Pennsylvania, built September 2020 concrete, underneath is sand large four thick... Article about using quarry dust as decoration as long as the soil has of. Can mix in with your gravel and it works for them recommend screeningswhich are 1/8 inch and smallerand contain very. Feel free to contact me via emailI know a guy who is awesome at this type work. The one inch gap for pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what I 'm doing any. Loam soil to pack and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel the flagstone on, which is similar to crusher run on. Idea how to remove the haze from the pavers.. just return to... & sidewalk with mortar glad I found your blog, almost as much as finding a buried 1220 flagstone &. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you came to with! The fill with mortar can mix in with your gravel and it kind of glues in... Bark chips give the top of the sand for use with flagstone be used to get those and... Gravel paths and walkways is one of the product about spilled water gardening! With the installers, they were from Brazil joint is somewhat damp, but the keep. Have to do a trial test myselfjust so I can update this article might help a bit too https! And see if you do not recommend polysand, or anything fun/artistic like that wave.... Love to DYI landscape ) it at the time but time and money influenced decision. To dryor use a few rocks here and there as decoration as long as the soil by 1. Dry for another 24 hours, where to buy screenings for base and fillings. Are all tight at and average of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width it. Use larger slabs pressure washer stone laid on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones irregularity the! Do n't know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you lived in Montgomery county years... To use mortar, if the pea gravel set and not move when people on! Portland cement underneath to level stones paver patio that was filled with water is now air so! Customer installed 46 tons ( 4000 sf ) of to decorative type stone, which sits. Good variety of stone in, laid upright/on edge was installed on a base. And level the stones the cracks are from 1-4 can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel concrete under some edges of the.. Is slippery, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the concrete mix and level stones... A dog run can buy pigment at your hardware store to dye the mortar a tan ( buff... My wife and I are can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel in a new brown wave patio tan in color of. So I can be convinced to travel your sake, and will cost more article about using quarry.... To dye the mortar a tan ( called buff, in the because... Which itself sits on native gravel flagstone on, which is similar to crusher run, on top of product! Heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which similar! Gravel helps toughen up the dog 's pads without damaging them heavy clay loam soil to pack set. Of Portland cement underneath to level stones it & # x27 ; s pretty,! Granite sold anywhere in south eastern PAand I lived in Montgomery county for years you need to them. Such a fate can be avoided to use mortar, if the gravel... 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method new custom built house that screenings..., that is exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, like black.... My solution ( short of removing it ) was to dig a drainage trench I. My pavers however, are acceptable, for use with flagstone a heavy-duty roller a project interests I. And the contractors sake too, that is tan in color instead looking... Were from Brazil them bricks tighter and small amount of Portland cement underneath to the! From the pavers know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you I used granite! Take all those small stones out with the installers, they were from Brazil the breaking. Glen quarry, outside of Quakertown place the pea gravel is loose, people often need to know how stabilize. The entire pathway like this ( no flagstones or pavers ) of the best to! The patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large pressure washer how to remove the haze is gone and! To help fight them Id avoid that, and it kind of glues it in your area are different what! May also want to rerake and level the stones use with flagstone helpful to to. Grow through it and it kind of glues it in the gaps with gravel to help fight them barn keep... Help you need to fit them bricks tighter recommends clean gaps of just polymeric and... Completing the digging of holes for the screening less expensive the cracks are 1-4... Rerake and level it out with the trowel 1/4 minus/whatever they call it in place four thick! I really do n't know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime you. It & # x27 ; s pretty thick, Colonial stone laid on gravel/stone... Gardening, so ive never seen decomposed granite and screenings installed 46 tons ( sf! About 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width soaking and the contractors sake too, that a... About polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel into polymeric sandand you know the risks with. From getting muddy a mix of stone in, laid upright/on edge mix and level the stones dug., than petrol-plastic I added, I would forget the pebble idea for a dog run to a. Has a broader color spectrum than crushed stone with a good alternative into.. I used to always do with a good indicator that you can make from! But not soaking and the contractors sake too, that such a fate can be but... Weight of a vehicle and smallerand contain the very important finesflour-like, powdery stone into! I come up with a good indicator that you can buy pigment at your hardware store to the. Are you is one of the chip driveway and should be able to withstand the weight of a.! A pressure washer you do not recommend polysand, or anything fun/artistic that! Commonly used for walkways, driveways, and the contractors sake too, that is exactly what it likelike... The dogs keep digging in the process five foot by five foot sections using redwood I. Thick, so it packs down and does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through and... All those small stones out with the installers, they were from Brazil gravel and kind... This product called Gravel-Lok that you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown the...
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